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so nadal is now bookies' favourite to wi...

Sep 3 2010 11:06:53
insideout
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Daily Telegraph
September 3, 2010

US Open 2010: what players are saying at Flushing Meadows

Novak Djokovic on whether he could duplicate Roger Fe...

Sep 2 2010 17:50:17
arfster (Mod)
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Friday weather: damp+rainy will make it a fair bit ...

Sep 2 2010 11:31:39
paulmurphy (Mod)
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@killer: Things will turn around, just be patient. :-)

Sep 2 2010 11:18:07
KiLLerLooP
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@KillerRS The trick is now to take on the winning dog in the next round :) GL mate

Sep 2 2010 11:14:22
KillerRS
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GUYS IM LOST. NEED HELP, DONT WHO TO PICK AS NEARLY EVERY PICK LOSES. BAGGY, BIRDMAN, CHAKVETADZE, RODDICK, :(

Sep 1 2010 21:01:40
arfster (Mod)
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Friday TV court schedule is out. Sod gets a day game, real worry for him in the heat imo. Djoko gets a night match.

Aug 31 2010 02:35:34
GoatMilk007
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Courts playing really fast thus far.

Aug 27 2010 20:19:32
arfster (Mod)
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Weather forecast looks unusually hot next week - up to 33c some days, and with bright sun the on court temps could be nearer 40.

http://weather.msn.com/tenday.aspx?wealocations=wc:USNY1208&q=Rego+Park,+NY+forecast:tenday

The average daily max for this time of year is 23C, so the balls will fly considerably faster than normal, bringing court speeds up to not far off that in Cincinnati.

Aug 27 2010 17:02:19
KillerRS
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Is their no US OPEN tipping contest this year on TI?

Aug 27 2010 08:22:40
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Punterclub:
With this being a Slam there are a few who can be considered favorites for the victory. The usual suspects include Federer, Nadal, Murray, Djokovic - the top 4 players at the moment who come here in different form. Federer has picked up his game and although he is far from his best he actually does not need to play his best to win the Slam on this surface as almost no other player is used to it and has the talents to defeat the Swiss man. Nadal is in the best form of the four, but he does not fare well on this fast and low bouncing surface and he has never gone to the final here. Murray looked in top form in Toronto, but lost to Fish in Cincinnati and he had some ankle injury that bothered him last week. Added to his generally poor fitness level in Slam that might ruin his chances for the title. Djokovic showed sparks of brilliance in Cincinnati, but he is not consistent and he has some fitness issues too with asthma and heat so he might not be able to stay on his best level for two weeks.
Apart from the big four there are guys who look in form on this surface and should be considered - Gulbis, Nalbandian, Querrey, Isner, Fish, Berdych, Roddick, Baghdatis, Soderling. Fish is the most dangerous of the local guys as he is in great form and has great skills for the surface. However, his game revolves too much around the serve and he is too limited on the ground to be considered. Roddick is not in shape to last the two weeks after the mild mono he had and Querrey is actually in bad form. Isner is hurt and expected to withdraw before the event. That leaves us with power hitters Gulbis, Berdych and Soderling and technical baseliners Baghdatis and Nalbandian. Gulbis is in the best form of his life, but he is still too shaky and inconsistent to be trusted. Soderling is actually not in good form now and he is far from his best that he played last season. Berdych is in great form as well as Baghdatis and Nalbandian. All of them have good weapons for hard courts and all of them have the skills and talents to do well here. Baghdatis is in the third quarter with Djokovic, Roddick, Davydenko and Fish and he can overcome any of them, but he has to be focused and prepared to beat them and then face Federer and Nadal or Murray in the last two matches. That is too much for a player as mentally volatile as him. Berdych and Nalbandian are in the top half with the Czech having to face minor opposition before the quarterfinals. Nalbandian has a potential battle with Verdasco before taking on Gulbis or Ferrer and then having to meet Nadal in the quarterfinals. He is fit at the moment, but that is a mighty task to beat five good players in best of five sets and we doubt he can pull it off.
Having in mind all the contenders we see Federer as the natural favorite for the title and he has the draw and the skills to do it. The only alternative for us in the higher odds department can be Berdych as he also has an easier draw and has to play just three big matches to win while his fellow outsiders-in-form Baghdatis and Nalbandian have much tougher tasks.
Good luck!

Aug 27 2010 07:36:12
paulmurphy (Mod)
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AAP:

NEW YORK, Aug 26 AFP - Roger Federer's path to a seventh consecutive US Open final could be barred by Robin Soderling and Novak Djokovic while top seed Rafael Nadal's career Grand Slam bid might be blocked by Andy Murray.
Thursday's draw announcement for the US Open set the stage for the Flushing Meadows fortnight that begins Monday.
Argentina's Juan Martin Del Potro is unable to defend his crown due to injury, opening the door for some familiar faces to seize the Broadway stage.
Second seed Federer, who won this year's Australian Open title for his record 16th Slam crown, also won the last major US Open tuneup event in Cincinnati and is hoping the regain the throne he lost to Del Potro last year.
Federer lost to Sweden's Soderling in the French Open quarter-finals and the two would meet again in the US Open quarters if form holds with Serbian third seed Djokovic a possible semi-final foe.
Federer opens against Argentina's Brian Dabul with a German, Michael Berrer or Andreas Beck, awaiting the winner in round two.
Australia's No.32 seed Lleyton Hewitt is also in their part of the draw and plays Frenchman Paul-Henri Mathieu.
Of the other Austrlaians, Peter Luczak plays Ukrainian Sergiy Stakhovsky and Carsten Ball has a qualifier.
Nadal, the reigning Wimbledon and French Open champion, would become just the seventh man to win at least once in all four Grand Slam events if he can finally capture the title at Arthur Ashe Stadium.
He opens against Russia's Teymuraz Gabashvili with either Argentina's Maximo Gonzalez or Uzbek Denis Istomin awaiting in the second round.
Eight-time Slam champion Nadal, a US Open semi-final loser the past two years, could face eighth-seeded compatriot Fernando Verdasco in the quarter-finals.
British fourth seed Murray, seeking his first Grand Slam title, is on pace to face Czech seventh seed Tomas Berdych in the quarter-finals and Nadal in a semi-final if form holds.
Murray opens against Slovakia's Lukas Lacko with either Jamaican Dustin Brown or Spain's Ruben Ramirez Hidalgo awaiting the winner.
Djokovic, who opens against compatriot Viktor Troicki, could face Russian sixth seed Nikolay Davydenko in the quarter-finals.

Aug 26 2010 17:38:24
arfster (Mod)
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Potential draws...

Nadal : Gabashvili, Istomin, Kohlschreiber, Ljubicic/Lopez, Verdasco/Nalbandian, Murray, Fed
Fed : Dabul, Berrer, Hewitt, Melzer, Soderling, Djokovic/Roddick, Murray/Nadal
Djoko : Troicki, Petz, Blake, Fish/Baggy, Roddick, Fed, Murray/Nadal.
Murray: Lacko, Brown, Wawrinka, Querrey, Berdych, Nadal, Fed
Sod : quali, Dent, Gonzo/debakker, Cilic, Fed, Roddick/Djoko, Murray/Nadal
Davy : Russell, Gasquet, Anderson, Roddick, Djoko, Fed, Murray/Nadal
Berdy : Llodra, Hanescu, Stepanek, Youzhny (Isner?), Murray, Nadal, Fed
Verdy : Fog, Riba, Nalbandian, Ferrer/Gulbis, Nadal, Murray/Berdy, Fed
Roddick:Robert, Tipsy, Monfils, Davydenko/Gasquet, Baggy/Fish/Djoko, Fed, Murray/Nadal.

Others....

Fish: Hajek, Cuevas, Baggy, Djoko, Roddick, Fed, Murray/Nadal
Gulbis: Chardy, Nieminen, Ferrer, Verdasco/Nalby, Nadal, Murray/Berdy, Fed
FatDave: quali, Flo-Mayer, Verdasco, Ferrer/Gulbis, Nadal, Berdy/Murray, Fed
Dolgo: Ferrer, Brands, Gulbis, Verdasco, Ferrer/Gulbis, Nadal, Berdy/Murray, Fed

Not far off a bye for Fed to the final. Hewitt, Melzer, Soderling, Djokovic. Good quality, but easy matchups for him. Same old pigeons, every year. Soderling will give it a go, he ran Fed close last year after the wind died down.

Nadal has a very easy route to the quarters (Ljubo isn't really fit for slams). Be interesting if Nalby can make it that far, but I doubt he has the fitness.

Djoko might struggle with Fish/Baggy in the R16, and Roddick in the qfs. By far the most in danger of the top 4.

Murray was always wanting to face Nadal in the semis, so someone else could knock out Fed - although Fed's draw is so easy that doesn't seem to be a factor. Decent draw to the qfs, but Berdy was probably the guy in 5-8 everyone wanted to avoid.

Berdy has a great draw. Easy route to the qfs, and Murray is perhaps the most vulnerable to his power in the top4.

Verdasco gets the prize for the worst draw. Nalbandian was the R3 everyone wanted to avoid, and Gulbis in R4 could be just as nasty.

Roddick encounters some unpleasant quality early on, Tips and Monf R2 and R3. Get past those though, and he could make the semis.

Fish has a great draw for his ranking. Get past Baggy in R3, and he can think big.

The 2nd section of the draw has some quality outsiders: Gulbis and Nalby, along with Chardy, Dolgo, Flo Mayer, and Verdasco and Ferrer too. Whoever comes through that has done well.

Aug 26 2010 16:34:52
arfster (Mod)
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Potential Fed-Djoko and Murray-Nadal semis. Same as usual.

Easy quarter for Nadal before that, apparently. Also as usual at the UO.

Fed-Sod qf?

Aug 26 2010 14:33:24
arfster (Mod)
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R1 stats...

Favs: heavy favs about break even, but 1.33-2.00 is quite nice, 140/211, yielding 6%.

Dogs: very bad, especially 2.00-3.50 is 55/172, -21%.

Aug 26 2010 09:05:31
insideout
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US Open(USA)

Here's a link to Mat Cronin's preview on USO title contenders in the women draw:

http://www.tennisreporters.net/uso 10 women pre.html

Aug 26 2010 08:54:10
insideout
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Here's a feat from Fox Sports with their perspective on US Open title contenders:

---

The champ is down and out ...

Injuries will keep defending champion Juan Martin del Potro out of the 2010 U.S. Open, and plenty of players are hungry to take his place. Who has the best shot? We break down the chances of some of the most notable names.

Don't even think about it ... Robin Soderling

The two-time French Open finalist seems to have the heavy-hitting game that's well-suited to the hard courts of North America, but Soderling has not had a memorable summer. He made the quarterfinals in New York last year, but it'll be a tall task for the No. 5 seed to make it that far in 2010.

Don't even think about it ... Nikolay Davydenko

Davydenko looked like the best player in the world as the year began. He won the World Tour Finals to cap 2009 then beat Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal in succession to win the 2010 opener in Dubai. Since then, he hasn't made a final and has lost seven times to players ranked No. 50 or higher. He's still the No. 6 seed, but don't expect to see him at the end.

Don't expect much ... Andy Roddick

That 2003 U.S. Open title is becoming more of a distant memory all the time. Roddick has recently shown flashes of the rejuvenated game that led him agonizingly close to a Wimbledon title in 2009, but his results since winning the Miami title in April have been mostly discouraging. His six losses since then have all been to opponents ranked No. 33 or higher.

Don't expect much ... Novak Djokovic

Amazingly, Djokovic hasn't defeated a single player in the top 12 this year. In fact, he's only played four matches against top 12 foes in 2010 — Jo-Wilfried Tsonga, Fernando Verdasco (twice) and Roger Federer. Add the lack of big-time matches to his recurring health issues, and you have a recipe for an early exit in New York.

Don't forget about ... Mardy Fish

Roddick may well end up the last American standing in New York, but don't count out this guy. Fish has flown up to No. 21 in the rankings with an impressive summer. Just this month he's beaten Andy Murray and Roddick and pushed Roger Federer to the brink in the Cincinnati final. Fish is playing better than any other American as we speak and he's 5-2 against top 10 players this year. It just might be enough momentum to make a run in Flushing.

Don't forget about ... David Nalbandian

The injury-plagued Nalbandian has charged back onto the scene this summer, winning the Legg Mason Tennis Classic in Washington DC and making a solid run in Toronto. With a good draw and a good break or two, Nalbandian just might help Argentina repeat at the U.S. Open.

Don't forget about ... Tomas Berdych

Berdych has not had a strong summer with his best result being a quarterfinal loss in Toronto in which he gave Roger Federer a fierce three-set push. The Wimbledon and Miami finalist has tremendous potential, though, and the heavy strokes to hit through the game's best at the U.S. Open. No one will want to see him in their portion of the draw.

Don't bet against ... Andy Murray

What a rollercoaster year for Murray. The Scot made the Aussie Open final, where he lost to Roger Federer without much fight. His game fell apart in the following months, with reports suggesting he had lost interest in the game. But he has stormed back since, winning the title in Toronto two weeks ago. At a time when there's no clear favorite for the hard-court Slam, Murray has to be considered one of them.

Don't bet against ... Rafael Nadal

If motivation matters, then Nadal is the favorite. The U.S. Open is the Spaniard's primary goal as it is the last piece of his Career Slam puzzle. He has been planning for this since Wimbledon, managing to keep himself healthy this year as he marches into Queens with the top seed and the world No. 1 ranking. His two hard-court tune-ups produced zero titles for him, but Nadal is still the game's best all-around player. Count him out at your own peril.

Don't bet against ... Roger Federer

Federer just turned 29, and we all know a decline, perhaps already underway, is inevitable. But of the last six U.S. Opens, the great Swiss has been to the final every time — and the only man to beat him in that stretch isn't playing this year. Federer knows time is short to improve on his record 16 Grand Slam titles and he'd love nothing more than to prove he still has what it takes. Fresh off a title in Cincinnati, he once again has to be considered the man to beat.

Aug 26 2010 08:37:31
insideout
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Here's a rather entertaining article for those of you interested in some US Open anecdotes:

http://tennisworld.typepad.com/thewrap/2010/08/it-happened-at-the-open.html

Aug 25 2010 14:06:54
catatonia
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Is it known which half of the draw starts on Monday? I suppose it will be Nadal as the top seed since the champion is not playing? Thanks!

Aug 24 2010 11:13:01
paulmurphy (Mod)
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Regarding USO court speed, the International Tennis Federation says it's "around the middle of the range for hard courts."

Aug 24 2010 09:08:20
paulmurphy (Mod)
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Seedings:

1. Rafael Nadal, (ESP)
2. Roger Federer, (SUI)
3. Novak Djokovic, Serbia
4. Andy Murray, (GBR)
5. Robin Soderling, (SWE)
6. Nikolay Davydenko, (RUS)
7. Tomas Berdych, (CZE)
8. Fernando Verdasco, (ESP)
9. Andy Roddick, (USA)
10. David Ferrer, (ESP)
11. Marin Cilic, (CRO)
12. Mikhail Youzhny, (RUS)
13. Jurgen Melzer, (AUT)
14. Nicolas Almagro, (ESP)
15. Ivan Ljubicic, (CRO)
16. Marcos Baghdatis, (CYP)
17. Gael Monfils, (FRA)
18. John Isner, (USA)
19. Mardy Fish, (USA)
20. Sam Querrey, (USA)
21. Albert Montanes, (ESP)
22. Juan Carlos Ferrero, (ESP)
23. Feliciano Lopez, (ESP)
24. Ernests Gulbis, (LAT)
25. Stanislas Wawrinka, (SUI)
26. Thomaz Bellucci, (BRA)
27. Fernando Gonzalez, (CHI)
28. Radek Stepanek, (CZE)
29. Philipp Kohlschreiber, (GER)
30. Juan Monaco, (ARG)
31. David Nalbandian, (ARG)
32. Lleyton Hewitt, (AUS)

Aug 23 2010 22:17:37
nadalin
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@arfster....any stats from last years 2nd round??
thanx in advance

Aug 23 2010 14:42:11
jonnyboy613
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More delays, folks. Matches unlikely to start before 7pm GMT

Aug 23 2010 11:08:20
redbaron
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Canada WTA(CAN)

From BBC Sport:

RAIN DELAYS ROGERS CUP SEMI-FINALS IN MONTREAL

Rogers Cup organisers will attempt to complete the tournament on Monday after rain wiped out Sunday's scheduled semi-finals and final in Montreal.

World number two Caroline Wozniacki had built a 2-0 lead over Russian Svetlana Kuznetsova before the weather halted the first semi-final on Saturday.

Wimbledon finalist Vera Zvonareva and Victoria Azarenka of Belarus have been unable to start their match.

And a bleak Monday forecast has left the possibility of a Tuesday finish.

If the tournament is not completed on Monday, the WTA said it would reassess the situation consulting with Rogers Cup officials, the players and television about extending it another day.

If the tournament is abandoned, all the remaining players will split the prize money and ranking points.

The last time the WTA was forced to abandon an event was 10 years ago in Scottsdale when Lindsay Davenport and Martina Hingis were unable to play the final because of rain.

Aug 23 2010 03:47:50
jthomps03
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Why are some of these matchups not the same on here and on the pilotpen website. It says on the schedule that Stepanek vs Cuevas but on here it is Stepanek vs Gabashvili...It also says Greul vs kukushkin and Hajek vs Brown...Which matchups are accurate???

Aug 22 2010 19:06:44
arfster (Mod)
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Just some context: "slow for Decoturf" is still faster than Miami, maybe about like a low bounce version of LA.

Rain/humidity reduces both speed and bounce.

Indoors .... bit of a guess. Certainly quicker airspeed cos it's air conditioned, but the surface should probably be the same as outdoors. Might be slicker though, you never know.

Aug 22 2010 14:23:44
arfster (Mod)
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Worth watching the weather forecasts closely: even when it's not raining, if it's overcast the humidity will be way up there. 22c + 80% humidity = slowwwwwwwwww.

Aug 22 2010 12:37:45
arfster (Mod)
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@nitececil: not a tournament I pay a lot of attention to, but for Decoturf it's fairly slow, possibly cos of seaside humidity, and the bounce isn't that high either. That's always surprised me as it's not a helpful prep event for the much faster US Open.

Aug 22 2010 10:18:31
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arfster, please some info on how the courts (should) play, if you have time. ty ;)

Aug 22 2010 01:07:12
arfster (Mod)
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Little warning for New Haven: not a good place to bet favs. R1 they return -10%. Best range to go fishing for dogs is 2.50-3.33. Here are those in that range, generally not top level guys losing these:

Taylor Dent Ivan Ljubicic 23/08/2009 6-3 6-4 2.74
Yen-Hsun Lu Guillermo Garcia-Lopez 24/08/2009 6-2 6-2 2.7
Potito Starace Mischa Zverev 24/08/2009 6-3 2-6 6-3 2.61
Frederico Gil Marcos Baghdatis 24/08/2009 6-4 6-3 3.06
Luka Gregorc Ramon Delgado 18/08/2008 6-2 3-6 6-0 2.65
Fabio Fognini Nicolas Lapentti 18/08/2008 6-4 4-4 ret. 2.63
Mischa Zverev Florent Serra 17/08/2008 6-2 7-6(6) 2.62
Ivo Minar Nicolas Mahut 17/08/2008 5-7 6-3 6-3 2.81
Donald Young Amer Delic 19/08/2007 4-6 6-3 6-4 2.83
Stanislas Wawrinka Mario Ancic 20/08/2007 7-6(4) 6-4 2.6
Albert Montanes Teimuraz Gabashvili 20/08/2007 6-4 6-4 2.81
Robin Vik Fabrice Santoro 21/08/2006 6-4 6-2 2.86
Philipp Kohlschreiber Mardy Fish 23/08/2005 6-4 6-4 2.5
Andy Ram Ricardo Mello 23/08/2005 6-1 6-4 3.01
Victor Hanescu Luis Horna 22/08/2005 6-7(4) 7-6(5) 7-6(5) 2.59
Andreas Seppi Dmitry Tursunov 22/08/2005 1-6 6-3 6-4 2.9
Tomas Zib Gilles Muller 22/08/2005 6-4 3-6 6-3 2.77

Aug 20 2010 22:11:27
Tsonga7
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Looks like a clay court field.

Aug 20 2010 21:20:30
Tennistic (Admin)
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New Haven Draws are up (M + W). I hope the Men's is OK, i pulled it down via MTF.

Am about to head off in transit to the snow... next schedule update in about 12 hours.

Thanks
John

Aug 19 2010 22:37:32
arfster (Mod)
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Quarterfinals since 2004:

Favs 21/24 wins, roi +20%

Only dog wins...
Robredo d. Ljubo 2006 @2.43
Ferrero d. Nadal 2006 @7.24
Ginepri d. Safin 2005 @2.60

Aug 19 2010 13:22:48
arfster (Mod)
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/8927528.stm

"It's very, very quick here," added the 23-year-old Scot. "It seems to me a lot quicker than it was in previous years.

"The practice courts are absolute lightning and the match court is quick too, so very different to Toronto, but I've played well here before so maybe it just takes a little bit of time to get used to."

(he said this after playing an afternoon match).

Aug 18 2010 10:45:53
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A few highlights of Tuesday action (day and night session):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkTVMzjwG0c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn3N_bxcf4I

Aug 17 2010 12:30:54
insideout
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For those who missed it, here are a few highlights of Monday's first round action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAPscosLQGo&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PPJgyWys5I&feature=player_embedded

Aug 13 2010 23:27:29
Tsonga7
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Fed has to get past Nadal to retain the title. interesting stuff. nice draw sooo many tough matchs early!

Aug 13 2010 23:24:17
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Cincy draw:
http://assets.usta.com/assets/663/15/MDS.pdf

Seeds:
Nadal, Berdy, Fed, Davy in top half.
Verdasco, Murray, Sod, Djoko in bottom half.

Interesting R1/R2:
R2 Nadal-Lopez: potentially dangerous for Nadal on a court this fast
R1 Llodra-Benny: doubles partners! If Llodra gets through he could play Nadal.
R1 Cilic-Baggy
R1 Ferrer-Dolgo
R2 Verdasco-Simon
R1 Simon-Fish
R1 Gasquet-Youz
R2 Gulbis-Melzer
R3 Murray-Gulbis
R2 Sod-Hewitt <----potential upset if Hewitt is fit, fast flat balls on this court are a serious pita
R1 Ljubo-Nalby
R2 Isner-Nalby <---Isner fit?

Draws....
Nadal: bye, Lopez, Llodra/Almagro, Berdy, Fed, Murray/Djoko
Berdy: bye, PHM, Cilic, Nadal, Fed, Murray/Djoko
Fed: bye, Blake, Monf, Querrey/dolgo, Nadal, Murray/Djoko
Davy: bye, ginepri, dolgo, fed, nadal, murray/djoko
Verdasco: bye, Fish/Simon, Youzhny, murray, Djoko/Sod, Fed/Nadal
Murray: bye, Chardy, Gulbis/melzer, verdasco/fish, sod/djoko, fed/nadal
Sod: bye, Hewitt, Roddick, djoko, murray, fed/nadal
Djoko: bye, troicki, isner/nalby, roddick/sod, murray, fed/nadal

Fish: Simon, Verdasco, Youzhny, Murray, Djoko/Sod, Fed/Nadal
Roddick: Staks, DeBakker, Sod/Hewitt, Djoko, Murray, Fed/Nadal
Nalby: Ljubo, Isner, Djoko, Sod/Roddick, Murray, Fed/Nadal

Davy's section of the draw is perhaps vulnerable, Dolgo and Querrey perhaps might look at that and fancy meeting fed in the qfs.

Nalby's draw is horrendous. He probably needs R3 here to get a seeding for the US Open, which should be manageable (Ljubo then Isner).

Aug 13 2010 20:13:54
arfster (Mod)
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Surface: supercushioned Decoturf - same as US Open, fast.

Balls: Penn - same as Canada, not quite as quick as US Open Wilsons though.

Conditions: a little altitude, and it can be HOT, so the ball really flies.

All told, the fastest outdoors hard court on tour.

Good for:
*big servers, breaks are rare here. If you get Roddick vs Karlovic, it's like at Queens, might as well start at the tiebreak.
*aggresive shotmakers with the ability to hit well against balls pinging through the court. Fed has a great record here.
*flat hitting counterpunchers can do well also. Murray and Hewitt have good records here.

Bad for:
*poor returners - as on grass, they've got almost no chance to break unless the opponent donates it.
*guys with big backswings on the groundstrokes - not much time to do those.
*slower guys (who often have big backswings!)
*most extreme grip guys. Nadal can be hit through here, its his worst masters - Djokovic has blasted straight through him two years in a row.
*guys who struggle in heat. Watch the weather for Mr Djokovic, and the tall guys can struggle.
*those who can't time the ball when it pings through the court, eg Davydenko has a bad record here.

Aug 11 2010 18:16:22
nitececil
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as I said that, checking the drawsheet, most likely a meeting with Davydenko in the 3rd round probably already giving Djoko a heartattack just thinking of having to play the russian in these conditions. Has to hope for a night game.

Aug 10 2010 12:49:46
paulmurphy (Mod)
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Something to keep in mind - One of the TV commentators (Doug Adler) described the courts as being 30 to 40 per cent slower than Washington.

Aug 9 2010 15:11:13
arfster (Mod)
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Extremely humid today, 83% atm, will slow the ball airspeed down a fair bit. Only the guys with really honking big serves and groundies can hit through that.

Aug 9 2010 15:02:17
KillerRS
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Hi, does anybody know how many courts have the hawk eye system at this event? Thankyou

Aug 7 2010 15:04:23
meganie
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Thanks. :)

Aug 7 2010 14:59:40
arfster (Mod)
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@meganie: none that I can see. Same surface (cushioned Decoturf), same balls (Penn), fairly similar weather - Montreal maybe a touch cooler/wetter but not much in it.

Aug 7 2010 14:21:27
meganie
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Is there any difference in court speed and bounce between Montreal and Toronto?

Aug 7 2010 14:18:44
arfster (Mod)
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Yeah, it's nice for the servers. Not quite as much as Tokyo or Washington, and no-where near as fast as Cincinnati, but still up there in the top third of outdoors hard courts.

However, major difference is the bounce is a fair bit higher than Washington. Helps defensive play, tall guys serving and hitting at shoulder height, and those with extreme grips.

Aug 7 2010 13:50:28
Einstein2
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based on stats one of the fastest hardcourt tournaments around the globe. Take a closer look on TB records and also serve & receive stats. GL and ciao.

Aug 7 2010 03:56:52
Tennistic (Admin)
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Toronto Main Draw is now up :-)

Aug 4 2010 14:06:10
freddiek
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Skysports are showing Washington action from Thursday evening (9:00 GMT) according to Skysports.com

Lot of tennis upcoming on UK/Ireland TV as SKY are also screening the Rogers Cup which follows the week after

Aug 3 2010 11:59:57
kingkoubek (Mod)
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Hopman Cup Exh(AUS)

Courtesy of http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/8880365.stm

Mixed pairs announced for 2011 Hopman Cup in Perth

Wimbledon champion Serena Williams will partner record-breaking United States compatriot John Isner in the mixed doubles of the Hopman Cup in January.

Isner gained worldwide fame for his 11-hour Wimbledon marathon victory against Nicolas Mahut in June.

Former Grand Slam winner Justine Henin pairs up with Steve Darcis for Belgium while world number two Novak Djokov and Ana Ivanovic will represent Serbia.

Australia's Lleyton Hewitt is also in action as is Gael Monfils for France.

Hewitt's playing partner is yet to be announced while Monfils, ranked 17th in the world will link up with Kristina Mladenovic.

In total, tournament director Paul McNamee announced five pairs of the unique eight-nation event starting on 1 January.

It will be Henin's first appearance in Perth and comes just under 12 months after she stunned the tennis world by reaching the final of the Australian Open in her comeback to Grand Slam tennis.

Williams will be making her third appearance in the team event, having won the tournament on both her previous visits.

And McNamee said he was thrilled with the initial signings.

"It's a spectacular line-up," stated McNamee. "There is potential for some really great match-ups for both the men and the women, not to mention the mixed."

Djokovic won his first Grand Slam title at the 2008 Australian Open after competing at the Hopman Cup and hopes a return to Perth will see history repeat.

"I'm looking forward to going back to the Hopman Cup," said Djokovic.

"For me it was a good preparation for the Australian Open."

Last year's mixed final saw British duo Andy Murray and Laura Robson beaten 2-1 by Spain.

Aug 3 2010 08:08:43
Tennistic (Admin)
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San Diego WTA(USA)

Qualifiers now placed for San Diego :-)
(apologies I was off site until now)

Aug 1 2010 19:08:09
rafanadal85
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A friend (simply become friends through tennis and twitter) who I`ve know for around 6 months from twitter.
She as a lot of passion for tennis, and often does some how can I say "interesting" messages on twitter. Some of you guys might find this useful... other not so useful. She`s court-side at Legg Mason! so here goes......

As I approached the grounds of the William H.G. Fitzgerald Tennis Center in Washington, DC, I was surprised to see the parking grounds almost full. And it was only noon. The first day of qualifying was already underway, but I didn’t expect such a turn-out. Then I remembered. Not only were three locals in the draw, teenagers Denis Kudla and Junior Ore, as well as UVA alum Michael Shabaz, but it was also Kid’s Day, moonbounces and all.

The weather was near perfection, warm with partly cloudy skies. But the courts were a different story. They felt least 40 degrees warmer. Each player that stepped off the court was drenched in sweat and even the surprisingly dry heat wasn’t cool enough for these pros. Enough about the weather, let’s check out what was happening around the grounds today

1.The first player I spotted was Croat Marin Cilic practicing. He was on-hand for the draw ceremony yesterday that included DC Mayor Adrian Fenty, who named the week of July31-August 8 as “Tennis Week.” Cilic was sporting new red Fila shorts and they popped with color. I approve.

2.Behind me a crowd started gathering and I noticed a legend, well, a legend to me at least. 28-year-old David Nalbandian was hitting with Viktor Troicki. I only caught the end of their session, but while Troicki looked like he could go on for another 3 hours, Nalby was dying in his own sweat. His fitness has definitely improved and his forehand is as strong and dominating as ever, but he still needs better footwork and to lose those ‘last few pounds.’ Later in the day, I spotted him practicing again with Radek Stepanek. Not sure how to read Stepanek’s game today. He would fire 10 aces in a row, hit some great down the line shots, and then come up empty for the next 10 minutes. I’m still not decided on whether being a newlywed is helping or hurting his game.

3.Gilles Simon was on the practice courts for quite a while. Surprisingly, he looks much stronger in person and his game is much more explosive standing 15 feet away. The camera does not do him justice. He was friendly and personable taking ten photos with fans and stopping to sign autographs. With each photo, he didn’t just stand there like most players. He reached his hand around and practically gave each person a hug. He is a hugger, ladies! This warms my heart. Girls got giddy around him, men stood staring in confusion, and I was happily enjoying viewing a former top 10-er in person.

4.I then checked out some of the Devin Britton/Brian Dabul match and I was startled when Britton stood in at tall 6’4’’ next to me. Somehow he always looked smaller to me on camera, but not today. And his eyes are a piercing blue color. Sadly, he is still very much a serve-and-volleyer. If he hasn’t changed his tactics by now, he may not for a long while. Point proven: he lost today after being up a set to Dabul.

5.I then had more French action. A shirtless Michael Llodra was practicing with Julien Benneteau and they were enjoying themselves and the heat. I would try to analyze their play, but I was in awe of Llodra sun-glistening. I had forgotten how good tennis players look sans shirt.

6.Kevin Anderson won his 1st round qualifying match earlier today, but his coach got him back on the horse. He was out working on his cross-court forehands and down the line backhands. At one point his coach said was trying to tell him to make his point-of-contact with the ball more in front of him, but it came out like this: “Take a smaller swing on your forehand so you can go through the motion more.” Anderson tried this new tactic with hesitation and the next ball went straight into the net. Coaching fail. Anderson then exclaimed: “I’ll just prepare earlier!” and he went on his way to hit winners. Whatever works.

7.I was able to sit in on center court for a while because a friend happened to have box seating his family bought 20 years ago. Now, that’s my fail not knowing this in years past. Anyway, I watched Michael Shabaz stay neck-and-neck with youngster Donald Young. Young has been the talk of the town for the past few years, but his talents never translated into a higher ranking than 73 two years ago. Maybe that will change this year as he won this matchup.

8.The #1 seed of the tournament, Tomas Berdych, was on the grounds today. As I was watching Troicki practice with Kei Nishikori (more on that hilarity later), a friend told me to turn around. To my shock, it was Berdych. In full view, with his coach. If you know me, you know I follow his game and love his style on- and off-court. As I walked closer to take a photo, I noticed not a single spectator was around him. Did they not know who was standing 10 feet from them?! How could they not realize that the Wimbledon finalist was right there!? Well, I’m sure most people are as concerned about this as me, but when I started taking photos, people finally started asking if it was Berdych. I coolly replied “Yes” trying to at least not seem like a fangirl. He was doing squats with resistance bands. And I’m not just talking about those dingy resistance bands you and I have, no. His were heavy-duty, dually-strapped silver magic bands. I now no longer have to wonder how he gets those legs into such amazing shape. It’s those damn bands. I’m making my boyfriend buy some. Well, if I had a boyfriend. Moving on …

9.As Berdych was practicing with Niskikori, I stood in awe yet again. Berdych continues to embody balance in tennis. Some may think his open stance, that looks as if he’s almost sitting in chair, is “awkward.” Not me. It takes so much strength to look like that and still keep your balance and poise. And he does it all with a smile. What’s not to love?

10.Back to the Troicki incident and the best moment of the day. We all know Troicki is hot-headed, but perhaps more so if you’re Serbian or Croatian and understand his obscenities. As he was hitting with Nishikori, balls kept rolling across his side of the court from the neighboring court occupied by Andrey Golubev. He was as patient as any man could be on a hot day in the sun, but after the 20th ball rolled across, he walked towards it and started yelling and swearing at the ball. In Serbian. And it was beautiful. He said something to the effect of “$#@ the $#*)* in the %#*)$+ ball %(*#_)@ every time!” On the next point on Golubev’s court, guess what happened? Yes, the ball started rolling onto Troicki’s court. What followed next was even more impressive than Troicki’s outcry. Golubev started swearing at the ball for about 10 seconds. In Russian. This moment was pure gold and only a few understood what even happened.

I’ll leave you on this warm thought for today and will be back tomorrow to report more. It will be the second and final day of qualifying as well as the first two main draw matches consisting of Giraldo vs. Malisse and Przysiezny vs. Zeballos.

Aug 1 2010 12:45:53
arfster (Mod)
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@inner8: yes, that's exactly it. Not exactly sure of the physics, but I think it's just there's less air there, so less air resistance, so the ball loses less of its speed in flight.

Aug 1 2010 08:42:56
kingy9494 (Mod)
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People. For those not aware there are two main round matches on TODAY at Washington and not the usual Monday...so get your tips in before you miss out. The matches on are:

Giraldo v Malisse
Przysiezny v Zeballos

Jul 31 2010 15:46:26
lilygotsilly
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Destroyer --- if you dont help on the women we are screwed - arfster doesnt follow the WTA :)

Jul 31 2010 15:45:57
lilygotsilly
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Istanbul WTA(TUR)

Destroyer --- if you dont help on the women we are screwed - arfster doesnt follow the WTA :)

Jul 31 2010 03:16:10
paulmurphy (Mod)
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Priceless info as always @arfster, many thanks.

Jul 31 2010 02:12:43
arfster (Mod)
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Fastish surface (DecoColor), fast balls (Wilson US Open), hot temperatures. All told, this is the second quickest outdoors hard court on tour.

Beware the weather. It can get very humid, and if it's sunny as well a lot of guys can suffer. Soderling, Isner are prime candidates.

Also beware the Canda masters is next week, and Cincinnati the week after. It's a very hard schedule, and the better players might not be too bothered unless they stumble into the semis. However, as a 500, the points at the latter stages are a good incentive: 180 for the semis, 300 for the final. Midlevel guys, 15-30ish, can really cash in with a good draw. A semifinal appearance here is worth as much as a masters qf, and it's often a lot easier to reach.

Guys who might underperform:
*those with big backswings, there's not much time to set up on your shots here as the ball comes through the court fast. Gabashvili in particular springs to mind.
*those straight from clay, especially altitude clay (Istomin, and especially Gasquet).

Jul 30 2010 21:09:05
Tennistic (Admin)
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Main Draws for Washington are up :-)

Jul 30 2010 17:08:22
lilygotsilly
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Ok - nobody seems to care about this tournament -- here's some info I got from Dick Gould Director of Tennis at Stanford University and former player -- sorry for the history but interesting nonetheless:

Drew –
I played here from 1955-60. The 11 main courts were, and still are, concrete (built in 1926). When I was here as a player, when the courts got slick, we would sand blast to roughen them up and slow them back down. When I started coaching here in the Fall of 1966, Laykold had just come out, so we used this as our primary resurface material, both on the concrete courts and on the asphalt Phys Ed/Rec courts. When “Malotte, Peterson & Grundy (now Vintage Contractors) started using Plexipave (when it first came out, whenever that was), we went with that product – new at the time – and still use it . . .
Don Budge is from Northern California. I am not aware of ANY clay courts in California until some isolated ones now. So Cal must mostly cement; Nor Cal had some cement, but mostly asphalt. The vast majority of courts in California are now asphalt. (As I said, the existing Stanford cement courts were put in in 1926.
Hope this helps.
Dick

Jul 29 2010 15:48:39
lilygotsilly
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where's venus

Jul 29 2010 07:45:36
inner8
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I maybe stupid asking this, but how (and why) does the altitude affect the game?

The only thing that comes to my mind is that the air is thinner, so the ball goes faster through it.. And that's why big servers have an edge at higher altitudes.. does that make any sense?

Jul 28 2010 23:42:27
lilygotsilly
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Istanbul WTA(TUR)

Anyone know the surface here

Jul 28 2010 23:42:01
lilygotsilly
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Anyone know the surface

Jul 26 2010 16:48:18
lilygotsilly
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So 80 sets the record for a clay tournament - i think. One last note - watching 08 to 10 simultaneously on my computer screen there is a definate difference each year in the surface. More clay, softer, thicker each year. Looked like a hard court in 08, normal clay in 09 and like hey dumped a truckload of loose clay on the surface before each match in 10!

As for speed thru the air -- 08 and and 09 looked fast - 10 abnormally fast. Supposedly changed the balls in 09 but I wonder now if it wasnt earlier. The added heat this year contributed to a ridiculous ball speed.

Final analysis -
08 - Rating 75 - Fast balls, hard surface - more bounce and speed off surface, but cooler conditions in May.
09- Rating 77 - Fast balls, Softer surface - less speed and bounce off the surface , but hotter conditions= higher rating.
10 - Rating 80 - Fast balls , Even softer and now slippy surface - less speed but even lower and now slippy bounce off the surface making for a very slow, low bouncing surface condtion. Very hot conditions all over making for very fast balls+low bounce=SUPER QUICK PTS FOR CLAY AND SUPER HIGH RATING

Jul 26 2010 14:46:47
arfster (Mod)
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Umag ATP(CRO)

Umag seems to have adopted the US Open balls last year, previously using Head. Still pretty darn slow though.

Jul 25 2010 17:02:54
lilygotsilly
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Wow, One more insight to add before I leave this behind till next year. I really thought that on this "quick" slow court conditions that mixing it up on serve and from the bl and into the net was the best formula in these strange conditions. Basically like slow grass. But its not slow grass - its slow, slippery, clay with light balls - three distinct elements - very strange indeed. After seeing Zverev and Reister go down and then Two of the Kings of "Mixing it Up" in Mayer and Melzer both go down to Goulubev i think I have to reassess. The best style for this surface ended up being good serving and QUICK POWERFUL SHOTMAKING - Istomin and Seppi to a lesser extent had that - but Goulobev had it far and above everyone else. The only reason he even came close to losing a set to Mayer was nerves. Other than that he was untouchable with that style in these conditions. And its quite dynamic and friendly to the eye. Almost like watching Feds at his best which has always been a rarity and a treat!

Jul 25 2010 13:17:53
arfster (Mod)
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Yeah, the balls fly and bounce high, and that's despite them using heavy clay and slower head balls to balance it a bit. The only hard courts with less breaks of serve than Gstaad are Washington and Cincinnati.

Very cool/damp though today, 13c (normally low 20s), taking the edge off it quite a bit. At a guess, that slows it down into a sea level fast court, something like Barcelona or Houston.

Jul 25 2010 08:00:37
Einstein2
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the fastest clay court during the season?

Jul 25 2010 01:43:58
willpies
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Los Angeles ATP(USA)

Don't think anyone will stop Murray

Jul 24 2010 16:39:52
lilygotsilly
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So sounds like due to their location near water they are using even lighter balls than RG - which explains a lot

And I still say that theyve added another layer of clay since they moved it to summer time. So in other words - since the move to July the surface is even heavier and lower bounce yet the balls quicker - so crazy conditions

Jul 24 2010 16:35:49
lilygotsilly
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Here's the answer:
"The balls are Dunlop fort which are lighter and travel fast through the air, they responding well at spin and power but they become heavier in damp conditions and that's why they use a lighter version as the surface is also slower."

Jul 23 2010 21:49:52
lilygotsilly
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Well, Ive seen bits of all 4 of the qtrs today and indoor or out- heat or no heat - the balls are flying thru the air! The balls dont look super hard or fast - in fact at times they look quite fluffed. And, obviously, indoors it moves a little faster. But the surface is real slow with the rain and humidity and theres a thick layer of clay making for a very "slippery" surface with a lower bounce. Similar to Prague of last week in the WTA. Big difference is for some reason balls are flying through the air - very different from Prague - very similar to Stuttgart - but much lower bounce since Stuggart had a very thin clay and played more like a hard court and higher bounce. Therefore - in some ways - Hamburg is playing like and ULTRA SLOW grass court - therefore all the fast pts and high court speed rating.
Now, in 08 the clay looked more "baked" and hard courtish, but last year looked very heavy like this year. Maybe since the move to the summer the officials decided to add more clay because of the hotter weather. That would slow the surface and lower the bounce if the top layer of clay is loose - as it is. But of course the added heat is adding to the air speed even more and the lower bounce makes for the "grass court" effect.
Those are my theories- take it or leave it. I feel satisfied with my analysis, yet I still dont know why the balls move so quick thru the air interdependent of the weather and with what look to be normal balls and normal altitude. A buddy of mine who's real good at condition analysis and has his own websited also said the balls always fly fast at Hamburg and I put a call out to him as to why that's the case! Waiting to hear....

Jul 23 2010 00:21:08
arfster (Mod)
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Nah, Hamburg has always been known as very slow, numerous players have said so. It's why Robredo has such a great record there, people can't bounce the ball over his s/h backhand. Similarly, it's why it's Federer's best clay event.

Jul 23 2010 00:17:04
lilygotsilly
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Saw highlights of nadal's comeback against Feds in 08. Besides the standard nadal "mto" I noticed it looked very similar to the French - faster balls. Then I saw all the 09 highlights and again , lighter balls, with the noticable added effect of hot weather. But nowhere did I notice that the clay behaved "slowly" in any of the highights. Yet I read others saying that the clay is really slow! Maybe they are just going by the stats you mentioned and arent actually watching - Im going to try to catch it on the tube in the morning and see for myself.

Jul 22 2010 21:49:35
lilygotsilly
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Thanks for the reply -- i guess I should be specific - im just going by the court speed numbers up above - and now its up to 80 for a clay court event - ive been following these numbers all year and have looked back at years past - no matter what the event or what kind of weather - 80 COURT SPEED IS OUTRAGEOUS FOR A CLAY COURT! Maybe they are using roland garros balls this year -but even then its still high.

Jul 22 2010 17:25:28
arfster (Mod)
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Sttugart is only 250m, not major. Was still higher serve stats though than Hamburg so far though (63.1% vs 62.5%).

Previus years Hamburg was <60% serve points won for comparison, one of the very lowest on tour.

Jul 22 2010 17:23:37
lilygotsilly
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Hey - i cant remember - whats the surface here -- isnt it plexipave - slower hard courts similar to aussie open

Jul 22 2010 17:21:19
lilygotsilly
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@arfster: Understood , but even for weather this is up to 79! Its been hot everrywhere including stuttgart last week which is also high altitude and thin layer of clay and the serve stats here are even faster! I noticed it was fast here last year too but in 08 it was more normal because it was in may when it was cooler. BUT EVEN IN MAY IT HAD SERVE STATS ALMOST AS HIGH AS HIGH ALTITUDE MADRID. so what gives - this seems like one of the fastest clay courts in the world!

Jul 22 2010 00:51:36
arfster (Mod)
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@lily: it's the temperatures, been blisteringly warm. The sun burns off the humidity so airspeed is high, and also bakes the court. Normally heavy clay becomes hard and dusty, thus much faster.

Should rain overnight for Thirsday's play, and be a lot slower.

Jul 21 2010 21:35:35
lilygotsilly
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Hey, does anyone know ..... why the conditions so quick here

Jul 20 2010 20:28:21
arfster (Mod)
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Atlanta ATP(USA)

Not as quick as expected, this is more midspeed midbounce. Perhaps needs a year or two to settle down, scuff up a bit - it does seem quite gritty.

Jul 20 2010 17:01:53
lilygotsilly
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@Destroyer: "ball is said to travel quite quickly through the air." Is this because of a lighter ball or is hamburg also altitude like stutgart

Jul 20 2010 06:41:56
Tsonga7
191 (357) Aces
+$3,711 ROI:+7.1% 73%

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Ferrer's been replaced by Giquel also..

Jul 20 2010 06:38:08
Tennistic (Admin)
35 (1683) Aces
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Hamburg match previews are now updated to reflect the Withdrawals of Gael Monfils and GGL.

cheers
John

Jul 18 2010 15:05:48
arfster (Mod)
Ace Leader #4
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Atlanta ATP(USA)

Expecting this to play similar to Washington, as it has the same surface(the uncushioned Decoturf DecoColor) and balls (US Open Wilson Extra Duty), and the same hot/humid temperatures (over 30c and 80%+ likely). In other words, in theory this should be one of the fastest outdoors hard courts on the tour, only behind Cincinnati.

Of course, sometimes how the courts have been laid can be unpredictable, so worth watching a few matches.

Jul 18 2010 12:52:02
thedestroyer9 (Mod)
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1968 (69992) Aces
-$276 ROI:-32.9% 44%

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Bad Gastein WTA(AUT)

Bad Gastein is a unique tournament on the ladies tour - the place is known as a "spa town" inside the state of Salzburg, situated at the northern rim of Hohe Tauern national park.

"Bad" means Spa, and "Gastein" is the valley, which is approximately 1000m (or almost 3300 feet) above sea level. So, obviously the altitude situation comes into the equation, which is not a regularity on the WTA tour apart from a few South American claycourt events usually earlier in the year.

Last year's winner Petkovic, SFist Shvedova and QFists Groenefeld and Rybarikova - all their performances would lead you to believe that the balls certainly do fly through the air and thus conditions are conducive to the more powerful hitters (also using Wilson balls which take a liking to anything above sea level), but the more defensive and less brute girls like Olaru (final), Cornet (SF), Meusburger, Zahlavova Strcyova (QF) and Vives (second round) all seemed to do ok.

Also important to remember that a few of the Austrian girls - Meusburger (Seefeld, 1200m above sea level), Hofmanova (Hornstein, 275m), Klaffner (Weyer, 800m) and Mayr (same as Meusburger). Bammer is from Linz, which has the lowest altitude measurement of the lot, and she looked mega uncomfortable here last year though that was probably not just the conditions but also combined with the fact she'd won Prague the week before.

There could be some surprises early in the tournament imo; Zahlavova Strycova is in the final of Prague, Hradecka, Medina Garrigues and to a lesser extent Cornet also had big weeks, Goerges has played about 9 matches in 14 days, Zakopalova is struggling with illness, Malek looks out of shape and Groenefeld, Garbin, Bacsinszky and Benesova are all in a form rot. Expect a good tourny from Sevastova, who may be the one at odds.

Jul 17 2010 22:50:48
thedestroyer9 (Mod)
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Portoroz WTA(SLO)

Couple of qualifying participants including Rodionova and Keothavong have already made mention of the scintillating heat in Portoroz, quite often a feature of this tournament every year.

Temperatures around the 30 degrees celsius + mark, and humidity is around 70%. Keothavong said on court that the humidity reading on court almost touched 100.

Bit of mystery surrounds the playing nature of this surface because they re-lay each year, but judging by last year's tourny where Errani and Medina made the final, you'd have to be erring on the side of a fairly slow-paced hardcourt.

It has also been documented that Portoroz hard court is quite higher-bouncing which makes life a little easier for the defensive clay-lover types (Jankovic, Errani, Brianti, de Los Rios, Camerin should enjoy this), whilst negating some of the advantages of the more powerful flatter hitters (so be careful with Pavly, Kvitova, Chakvetadze etc).

Errani should also relish the heat with her great conditioning, comfortability with such a climate and her mental toughness, but a lot of the other girls highly susceptible imo; Jankovic (more mental), Pavly (stamina), Larsson (illness), Paszek (heat stroke retirement last week), Razzano (back from long injury layoff) along with a few other lesser types.

Additionally, you'd think the home girls have a bit of an advantage in the conditions, but they all have question marks - Hercog can't play on anything else other than clay it seems, Srebotnik's fitness etc due to her long time off and Klepac's overall ability/skill and belief at this level.

Jul 16 2010 09:29:19
thedestroyer9 (Mod)
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